11
Are we the same ship or a new ship? Claudia Nanino is the epitome of how we are both
Claudia is a mother, master breathwork facilitator, crystal curator, and an explorer of non-ordinary states of consciousness. She was born in Colorado to immigrant parents and in 2016, returned to Denver after a devastating divorce. To help with the blame she held for the divorce and the struggles she had with addictive behaviors, she sought out nontraditional self-development and healing modalities after more Western approaches felt out of alignment and left her stuck in logic and disconnected from her heart. As she began to rebuild her life, her spiritual evolution was catapulted by the various teachers, healers, and practices she was saying yes to leading her to leave her corporate career and create Amarsi, a soul-led business connecting people to their breath and the earth.
In this intimate conversation, we dive into all of the above and sit with the wisdom Claudia brings from her experiences working with plant medicines, learning to become comfortable with being in discomfort, and what she would tell her younger self.
We also talk about:
Resources:
Find the full episode transcription here
Suicide Prevention Lifeline: call 988 to be connected with a trained professional
Crisis Text Line: text HOME to 741741 to connect with a crisis counselor
Follow us on:
TikTok:
@nooffenseand
Instagram:
@nooffenseand_podcast
@kelly.haze
@amustardshower
Email: nooffenseand@gmail.com
Send us your feedback here
Subscribe to our email list here
We acknowledge we are operating on the occupied land of the Ute, Arapahoe, and Cheyenne peoples colonized as Denver - we pay our respects to those past, present, and future. We also acknowledge this statement is not enough and are committed to giving a portion of our proceeds to the people whose land we occupy and are in the process of getting a true land reverence.
11
Are we the same ship or a new ship? Claudia Nanino is the epitome of how we are both
Claudia is a mother, master breathwork facilitator, crystal curator, and an explorer of non-ordinary states of consciousness. She was born in Colorado to immigrant parents and in 2016, returned to Denver after a devastating divorce. To help with the blame she held for the divorce and the struggles she had with addictive behaviors, she sought out nontraditional self-development and healing modalities after more Western approaches felt out of alignment and left her stuck in logic and disconnected from her heart. As she began to rebuild her life, her spiritual evolution was catapulted by the various teachers, healers, and practices she was saying yes to leading her to leave her corporate career and create Amarsi, a soul-led business connecting people to their breath and the earth.
In this intimate conversation, we dive into all of the above and sit with the wisdom Claudia brings from her experiences working with plant medicines, learning to become comfortable with being in discomfort, and what she would tell her younger self.
We also talk about:
Resources:
Find the full episode transcription here
Suicide Prevention Lifeline: call 988 to be connected with a trained professional
Crisis Text Line: text HOME to 741741 to connect with a crisis counselor
Follow us on:
TikTok:
@nooffenseand
Instagram:
@nooffenseand_podcast
@kelly.haze
@amustardshower
Email: nooffenseand@gmail.com
Send us your feedback here
Subscribe to our email list here
We acknowledge we are operating on the occupied land of the Ute, Arapahoe, and Cheyenne peoples colonized as Denver - we pay our respects to those past, present, and future. We also acknowledge this statement is not enough and are committed to giving a portion of our proceeds to the people whose land we occupy and are in the process of getting a true land reverence.
Kendle: Hey, y'all. You're listening to no Offense and a loving and nourishing space created to fuel conversations around personal and collective liberation. We're Kelly Kendle, having vulnerable and intentional conversations full of humor, empathy, and, of course, love. Kelly: Honestly, these episodes are just our opinions, so take no offense, and we invite you to explore yourself through our words. Help grow our community by leaving a review and most importantly, sharing. Now let's get into some self loving.
Kendle: Hey.
Kelly: Hi.
Kendle: We’'ve been together all day for usual and haven't caught up, haven't talked about what's happening in life now.
Kelly: And if you hear any ambulances or motorcycles or music even playing in the background, kenny and I are vibing right now. We're in my downtown condo recording, so it's very noisy sometimes, so if you hear anything, just we're in a vibe.
Kendle: We're vibing hard.
Kelly: Kenny has never really experienced Denver like this. It's my parents condo, and they're on the 20th floor. They're literally, like, in one of the main hub hearts of Denver, and it has unobstructed views. It's gorgeous. So Kendle is loving this new perspective of Denver, and I haven't been here forever, so I'm also remembering how much I love being in the space. Kendle: Yeah, it's great. And the view out into the city, and then we are graced with almost a full moon moon, and it's just we're feeling ourselves
Kelly: a daylight moon.
Kendle: I love day moon. Day moon is my favorite.
Kelly: I know.
Kendle: Such a surprise, right?
Kelly: And you're like, oh, hi. Sun moon together.
Kendle: What a treat. I'm like, oh, wow. We are extraterrestrial. There's so many more things out there in the world. It just makes me feel cool,
Kelly: which I feel like I need one of those extraterrestrial stones from Claudia
Kendle: Euphorialite.
Kelly: Oh, my goodness. She was talking about it. I was looking at it. You were telling me about it, and I know. She was like, well, some people love it, some people hate it. I was like, no, I want it. I need it.
Kendle: Yeah, it's cool. We've been vibing a lot today.
Kelly: Absolutely. We had our first interview.
Kendle: Yes. Her name is Claudia Nanino.
Kelly: Give us a rundown. Kenny.
Kendle: Yeah. So I moved to Denver about a year ago, and in the process found Claudia online, found that she had this apprenticeship for conscious breath work. Reading the description of it, I hadn't felt that alive maybe ever, but, like, especially at that point, a couple years, I was so depressed, and, oh, my gosh, it was just like I found my home. I knew that the divine intervention and leaving me there anyway, Claudia has been such a gift to my year here. Everyone I have met, I have met through Claudia, pretty much Kelly included. Kelly is actually one of my pro bono clients for the apprenticeship. And, yeah, everything is just such a treat. Claudia is a treat. And she has her breath work business. She is a breathwork facilitator. She goes by master breathwork facilitator. And she also has her own crystal business and she is an alien in her own right. And we just got the honor of hearing her life story, especially the last seven years of her life, the metamorphosis that she has been evolving through. And yeah, it was a rad conversation.
Kelly: We're so excited to share her story with you guys. You are going to love, I think, just hearing that raw, honest, vulnerable journey that she's experienced and some of the things that have really helped her go from this place of addiction and self destruction into this place now where she was able to be on a panel with one of her mentors that she looked up to and creating this new life for herself. And not only has she created this new life for herself, but that new energy that she's radiating. Look at all the positivity that's coming from her own self love journey. I love being able to see what a ripple effect that became. Like you said, we met each other. She brings together so many people. She helps heal people. And not only was it an honor to hear her story, but I have to say this, when we were interviewing her, all I could look at, which is obviously how beautiful of a person she is on the inside, but she is so stunning. Kendle: She's gorgeous.
Kelly: Yeah. Oh my goodness.
Kendle: we've got a girl crush
Kelly: a little bit. I'm like everything about her right now. It's that aura and it's her beautiful hair, skin, and just she's speaking and I'm like, oh my gosh, please tell me more.
Kendle: She's activating going to her website when I first found it, seeing her picture right there and then seeing offerings, apprenticeship, I was like, oh, I'm home. And I've just continued to feel that way. And I feel like we felt that today, being in her home and also through this conversation, it was very raw, very unfiltered. We went there, we went deep. And I just so appreciate her giving us that time and her energy. It's a vibe.
Kelly: Yeah. What were some of the key highlights, do you think, from that conversation that really stuck with you?
Kendle: Yeah, I loved hearing about her experiences with plant medicine and just the oneness and the nonduality, the way that she described it, her ego death. And I loved hearing about the science behind her addiction, her sex and love addiction and the dopamine and the way that the brain responds and how she went through withdrawals. I just think that that is information that the world needs, conversations that need to be had.
Kelly: I mean, when she was talking about addiction, again, just opening my perspective to other types of addiction, I think that's one of the things I absolutely loved about the conversation with her was expanding my mind to, okay, I can't think so narrowly when someone says something, let's dive in, let's dig deeper and really find out what this is. Because when she said addiction, my first instinct is, like, okay, drugs, alcohol. And to hear that addiction with not only sex, because I hear sex addiction a lot, too, but love and sex. It was so special to hear something that made me think outside of my normal thoughts.
Kendle: Out of the box.
Kelly: Out of the box. Yes.
Kendle: Opening the mind.
Kelly: Yes.
Kendle: I love it.
Kelly: And we're just so pumped for you all to hear this episode. We know you're going to love it. We hope it's as expansive for you as it was for us.
[silence]
Claudia: And they just talked into it. I gambled, I won. People were like, what are you doing? Shopping? And I was like, I'm going to go shopping for money.
Kelly: Do you do slots? Black Jack?
Claudia: Crabs
Kelly: Crabs is the dice.
Claudia: Yeah.
Kelly: Anyone? No one's at that.
Claudia: The odds are pretty good.
Kelly: Really?
Claudia: Yeah.
Kelly: Do You blow on them?
Claudia: No, but I was doing, like, manifesty stuff.
Kendle: Oh, yeah? What were you doing?
Claudia: Just, like, saying the numbers. And I had just, like, a little routine. And even the dealer was like, wow, you keep hitting. And then the Pip boss was like, Is she doing good? And they're like, yeah, she keeps hitting. And he was, like, watching me. And I was like, do her things. And I'm like, doing it.
Kendle: Some witchcraft.
Claudia: Yes.
Kendle: Yeah, they can't knock you for doing witchcraft.
Claudia: Exactly. They were just, like, watching me closely and checking she's not slipping dice under her sleeve.
Kendle: I feel like I haven't been to Vegas in a minute. Has the energy shifted there since COVID?
Claudia: So I went twice during pandemic. Yeah. And that was super fun because it was empty. And that was, like, my favorite Vegas experiences, probably. And then this time it just felt like back to regular Vegas, like crowds and hardly anybody wearing masks. I only was in the casino that little I mean, I was sleeping there, but I just gambled for 20 minutes, so I wasn't really on the floor that much. And then most of the event was at Meow Wolfl for all. The event was at MeowWolf in Vegas.
Kendle: That's cool.
Claudia: It was kind of like we're in our own little world off the Strip for a lot of it. It was crowded. There was lots of people there. Didn't really feel like it slowed down at all. Yeah. We've been to meow here very briefly. I need to go back and spend some time. Yeah. Have you take a step in and come out. Yeah, kind of. It was really brief.
Kendle: Yeah. I went from friends in town and they wanted to go, so we visited. It was cool. Yeah, it's trippy.
Kelly: I haven't experienced any of them yet. I want to. I'm just nervous about going because I'm still very COVID conscious and I'm like I feel like a lot of things get touched.
Claudia: Yes. Not as much as you think, actually. Mostly like you're observing. Very visual. Kendle: Yeah. Not so much like tactile.
Kelly: Okay. Yeah. I don't want to go face or touched, and I'm like touching those. Too many points of contact. But I do want to go because I hear when you go, too, you can go one time, then you can go again. And there's so much that you can just experience it so differently every time.
Claudia: Yeah.
Kelly: I want to see it.
Kendle: I feel like that's kind of like a metaphor of life.
Claudia: Yeah, totally.
Kendle: Always go back to the same things and have a new perspective on it.
Claudia: Yes.
Kendle: That's why I like reading the same books again. Or like watching a movie again. I always pick more wisdom knowledge from it. I've read Harry Potter so many times.
Claudia: Have you?
Kendle: Yes!
Claudia: I've read very few books twice. I don't think I've read anything three times. Maybe eat, pray, love. But I've read three times maybe. I think I've read that. Yeah. I think I'm going to read herself a third time.
Kendle: That book.
Claudia: But I brought it to read a third time, and then we were in Ceremony, and somebody had a really fucking challenging time. And I was like, Actually, this book is for you. And I gifted it to her. I was like, I thought I was meant to read it again, but I'm actually meant to do it.
Kendle: I love that amazing book.
Claudia: Yeah.
Kelly: Just to get, like, a little tidbit of, like, who you are. Is that your favorite book?
Claudia: It's up there. It's funny, people ask me what my favorite books are, and I feel like I should have a list of all these selfhelp books and Georgia Benza and Ever, all these people. And I'm like, Those are actually while I get so much out of those books, they don't ever come close to being my favorite book, even though they can be very impactful and insightful and educational. But when I sit and think about what my favorite books are, they're all fictional. Yeah. And so Diana herself is up there. I pray love is up there. The fifth sacred thing is up there. And Lamb, the Gospel according to Jesus best friend BIFF or childhood pal BIFF or something.
Kendle: You've told me about that so many times that I want to read it.
Claudia: Yeah, I'm going to read that one again. I enjoyed it so much. And also, I think it's either under a Scarlet Sky or Beneath a Scarlet Sky, which is a World War II novel, which I obsessed with historical novels, too, and it's technically fiction because they had to fill in the gaps, but it's mostly based on a true story. And it's, like, one of the most beautiful books I've ever read in my life. Wow. And I love when stuff's, like, relatively accurately related to the timeline of what actually happened. I don't know why it moves me so much more when I know it's potentially real.
Kelly: Yeah, I have to put some of those on the list.
Kendle: Yeah, I know. I feel that, though. Like, there's that comfort and just knowing that I'm being held and I'm not being lied to.
Claudia: Yeah, exactly.
Kendle: So manipulated in this world. This is truth.
Claudia: Yes. There's a lot of comfort in that.
Kendle: Exactly. Is there anything you're reading right now? I'm starting to get back into Do Better.
Kendle: Okay.
Claudia: I picked it up a long time ago and I put it down.
Kendle: Yeah. I picked it back up again too.
Claudia: So that's what I'm currently reading right now. That is awesome. I'm listening to Recapture the Rapture, which is way heavier than I expected it to be. So it's not like I'm thinking it might not have been the best audio book. I probably should have picked up a copy of that one because when it's super heady, I prefer to read it. If I'm listening to it, I'll tune out really easily. If it's too late, for some reason, I know they're going to talk about breath work at some point. That's the reason I picked it up. But so far it's a lot about conspiracy and doomsday and, like, big corporation and all the stuff. I'm like, okay, like, interesting content, but this is not what I thought it was going to be at all. Yeah, like seven people recommended it to me, so I'm like, okay, we'll see. Yeah, little bit. I listen to it.
Kendle: Do you think you'll end up buying it or?
Claudia I'll probably just keep listening and see what happens.
Kendle: I feel like sometimes those kinds of books are almost better to absorb in small chunks.
Claudia: Yes. Because then it actually sits more. I think so, too.
Kendle: Yeah, it's like, do better. Right. I've come back and do it so many times and had to put it down, and I think that's how I am with almost all books. Except for fiction.
Claudia: Except for fiction. I think that's why I like fiction so much, because I like, make me not want to put it down. Yeah. And then there are self help books, which I love, but I'm rarely like, I don't want to stop reading this. Usually I'm like, I need to take a break.
Kelly: That's a lot to digest, too, right? Like, fiction is easy because you can just get lost and fantasy when you're doing self help book, they're so amazing. But there's always points in time where like, okay, I need to sit on this.
Claudia: Right? This is a big revelation. Like, I need to digest this 100%. I need to work on what it's telling me right now. Sometimes I can feel like a slap in the face, like, oh, my God, so obvious.
Kendle:
Do you remember a moment of a book or something that really kind of did that for you when you were beginning your self love journey?
Claudia: Recovery 2.0 was a really powerful book early on in my journey at that point. I don't know if you're familiar with Tommy Rosen, that's his book and he's a recovering addict and went through the twelve step and then found that something was missing. And he went deep into yoga. Kundalini yoga specifically, and meditation and holistic living and holistic lifestyle. And I had recently kind of really dived into my self work and self healing, but was still a little bit more traditional at that point. Like therapy was also dabbling in twelve step. And my ex husband and I had just moved to Colorado and a good friend of mine mentioned that the Hanamon Festival was happening in Boulder, which is like an annual yoga festival. And he's like, oh, my friend Tommy Rosen is going to be speaking there and he has this whole Recovery 2.0. I think he might like it. And he couldn't even attend. He's like, you go, I'll meet you there afterwards. And at that point in part of my journey, I was just saying yes to everything. Like any recommendation that somebody I trusted gave me, whether that was a book or a podcast or a person or even a social media account or the retreats or different spiritual teachers or healers or guides, I would just say yes. And different modalities, too. I was really into exploring different modalities at that point, and I don't think I have quite yet gone. I started working with plant medicines yet, but it was right around that time, like all these things were just kind of coming into my world just based on the different content I was consuming and also based on different friends and family who saw that I was trying to change and to heal. And going through a divorce, a messy divorce that was, from an outward perspective, mostly my fault. And people knew that I was just really trying to move through a lot of that emotion and a lot of that guilt and a lot of that shame and a lot of that fear. And having moved back to Colorado was challenging because I was leaving this community that was relatively superficial, but it was a community that I had. And even though I'm from Colorado, most of my community was gone at that point, or with community that I didn't necessarily think I would connect with anymore. This one friend that I did know that was here that I would love, made this recommendation, went to it and met Tommy and he walked us through. He didn't talk too much about the Recovery 2.0, but it was more of a practice of yoga, kundalini practice with some chanting, with some movement, and I just really appreciated his energy and the little bit that I knew about him and his recovery path. I was like, oh, I think there's something here. This feels more in resonance with me, more than just kind of traditional twelve step. And he talks a lot about these additional mostly ancient practices and schools and thoughts and modalities and how that can actually just drastically improve your life. Like whether you're working on recovery or addiction or not, just like, how these elements are missing from us, from our lives, and especially in today's society. And anyways, I loved it. Bought his book Devoured. I started to follow him. I went to one of his retreats with a girlfriend, and it's interesting. It was so monumental and impactful for me in that moment, but then I eventually moved beyond it, and I think I shared with you when I was at the Sun Valley Wellness Festival last year, we got to speak on a panel together. And that was like such having gone from being his students to then being his peer and speaking on a panel about recovery and alternative modalities to recovery at that festival was like, wow, like, what a full circle moment that he was so impactful early on. And now I'm in a place where I've people consider what I have to say worthy enough to sit at the same table and be on the same stage as him. And that felt like imposter syndrome was coming up big time. Of course, I was like, do they know who I am? Like, how did I get chosen for this? But then I was like, you know what? It was awesome. And I was intimidated for sure, and I felt like I brought a beautiful perspective to that panel, and I got to meet some really cool people too.
Kendle: You were on it for a reason. They chose you and asked you for a reason.
Claudia: Yes.
Kelly: That's so cool.
Claudia: It was really cool. But going back to your question, recovery 2.0 was a book early on in the journey and the healing that was very impactful for me. That was like, I was just starting to get into the self help type books. Prior to that, my other people would recommend things for me prior to my life blowing up and having the need to actually start to self reflect and then look at things like, I really resisted self help books. I'm just like, oh, they're so boring. I just couldn't connect with the content at all until I was ready to, of course. So that was one of the first ones that really spoke to me.
Kelly: I know Kendle probably knows your background a little bit better than I do. Do you mind taking me back?
Claudia: Yes, of course.
Kelly: Sharing some of those addictions, all of those things.
Claudia: Yeah. So I was in a relationship for a long time, 16 years. We're married, we had two kids. I had a very successful career. From all outward measurements, like, life looked good and relatively was good, I think, especially at a surface level. We knew how to fun, we knew how to have a good time. We met when we were very young. And because I was essentially doing no selfwork, I didn't really have a lot of awareness. I didn't really understand what my pain points were, what my triggers were. We triggered each other very well, very easily, like it fit very perfectly. But we also loved each other so much that it was easy to have a big blow up and then stuff it and move on. Have a big blow up and stuff it, move on. We were never really kind of addressing the problem or working on what the triggers were or owning our own reactions to things. And anyways, I started, I think, dealing with my self dissatisfaction and being unhappy and not having my needs met, even though I felt like I was kind of addressing them, but not really like I wasn't addressing them in a way that was being received or communicated. And I didn't know anything about holding boundaries or anything like that at that point. So I would set all these boundaries that I would hold zero of them and then I'd get mad when they would be crossed, but then I would just let it happen over and over and over again and never deal with it. But so then I was looking back. Now I understand that I was reaching out across many different avenues to try to feel good, to try to manage my pain, to try to find some level of satisfaction. And there's this term that I learned called spread addiction which really resonates with me. And it's actually not a very common term, which I'm surprised because whenever I share it with people, they're like, especially people who ended up having maybe one or two specific addictions, they're like, oh yeah, that also really resonates. But it means like, instead of maybe having one thing that really takes you down and that you fall, it's almost like you're spreading across multiple different vices, essentially. So for years and years and years, I had issues with food and eating and comfort eating. I had issues with overspending. Like, money was a big way that I would get those dopamine hits and spend money that I didn't have and dance with debt most of my adult life. Alcohol, I had a very unhealthy relationship with alcohol and it was by society standards totally normal and by the circle that I was keeping, absolutely fine. But looking back, it was really not good for me. And I was even at a point towards the end of my relationship with alcohol, I would only maybe drink once or twice a month, but every time it was like blackout disastrous, like binge drinking. So even though it's like, I'm not an alcoholic, I only drink once or twice a month, but it's like but when I do drink, I go crazy. I have this story of like, I've earned this. I've been so good all months now I can go wild. I'm like, that never worked out. And so that also was a big issue in my marriage. He was not loving my relationship with alcohol, but also he was not that it's his fault or his responsibility, but there was never an ultimatum set around my drinking. And I'm curious, had there been, would that have been enough for me to stop back then or really evaluate my relationship with alcohol? I don't know. Who knows? I'm always curious. Yeah, probably not, but who knows? Drugs? I never was addicted to any drugs, but I certainly probably partied a little harder than most. And then assessing love addiction, which is also another addiction that's not super well known or there's a lot of misconceptions about it. And then there's sex addiction and there's sex and love addiction and they're nuanced and they're different. And I got to a point in my life where I did identify as a sex and love addict, and
I even find my ego right now really resisting that sex addiction label because there's a lot of preconceived notions and there's a lot of especially for a woman, there's a lot of judgment there. I liked sex and love or not. I liked that's what felt more in resonance, because even though sex was a component of it, it was really like I was just looking for validation. I wanted to feel loved. I wanted to feel desired. Flirting was a big thing for me. I learned to get these dopamine hits across all of these things I mentioned. But then the sex and love piece really started to kind of take over and that's eventually what kind of what dropped a bomb on my whole life. That got to a point where it was out of control and compulsive and what. I mainly ended up wanting to heal when I started this journey, and I ended up quitting alcohol at the same time, but not needing to be super focused on that. Like, I never went to AA and I thought, I feel confident I can quit drinking because I also know that it's not going to help with the sex and love peace. But if that ends up becoming a struggle, then I know AA is available to me. But it wasn't like once I made up my mind about that, it was pretty easy to do, thankfully. I know a lot of people don't have that same ease with it, but it was sex and love stuff that I really had to dig into and heal. And luckily I found a therapist in I was in California at the time who specialized in that and she was incredible. I had gone in and out of therapy for a lot of my adult life. And looking back, I now realize that it wasn't very effective for me because A, I wasn't working with good therapists and B, I probably wasn't being super honest with them because I wasn't being honest with myself, and C, they probably weren't specializing in the things that really I was struggling with. And I think I was just like checking out the box of like, well, I'm in therapy and even though not a lot is getting done, like at least I'm going to therapy. That seemed to be good enough. And then this therapist in particular was excellent and helped me do an entire inventory of my life and really identify the how, the when, the why, which gave me a lot of compassion for myself because it was like, oh, I'm not just an asshole. I can see how this happened to me when I was 14, how that left an echo throughout my life. And when this happened to me when I was 18, I learned to cope in this way. And when this happened, I decided I wanted to show up in this way to try to control and make sure that kind of stuff didn't happen. And it was just interesting to see all the different moments in my life and how that created the adults that I became and being able to identify that and unpack, that was huge. And then I was in Twelve Steps, like I was saying for a while. I started that at the same time that I was going to therapy. And that also was very useful for me, especially just because it gave me community people who understood what I was going through. And they were always women's groups and that felt very comforting because I think most people assume that it's men who have problems with sex addiction and so it was nice to be seen and held by women who are also struggling with the sex and the love component of it and understanding that it's also a chemical addiction. You just train your brain to figure out how to get these dopamine hits, and I had figured out how to get them in a variety of ways, but like, validation and flirtation and intrigue with people, especially outside of my marriage, because I wasn't getting it in my marriage, was a way that I was like I was literally getting high from it. It was crazy to look back and see what a chemical rush I would get from it and how I knew how to get it. Like I knew which buttons to push and what things to say and when to reach out to who and when and be able to get that validation and get that high from it. And it's crazy when you end up going through like a withdrawal, which people are like, what are you talking about? And you do there's an interesting withdrawal process and you physically feel like how low you are and how you're missing this piece that you're so used to giving yourself by doing certain things. And so yeah, then that just catapulted my whole journey, especially because I was carrying a lot of guilt and shame around that and a lot of blame and Im a mother. So I felt really bad for destroying the family and for breaking up my children's parents. And there's just so much and of course, there's a lot of judgment from his side, but also from my side. As well. I think the only person who really could feel compassion was my dad because I'm my father's daughter, and we share a lot of history and pain and traumas, and it's so funny. My father, we have a beautiful relationship, but there's so much that I resisted about him as a kid. And then to grow up and be like, oh, I'm exactly like him in a lot of ways. Exactly. That really is what catapulted my journey and my healing. And when I was doing those more traditional things, yoga and meditation were a huge part of it. I've always loved yoga since I was younger, first for the physical aspect, but then when I was in that part of my life, realizing how much it was doing for me mentally, just, like, helping me mentally and emotionally. And then it started to even help with the spiritual connection pretty quickly, especially once I moved to Colorado, I was feeling less drawn to the more traditional things, and I really drawn into, like, more of the spiritual side of things. And then so when I found Tommy Rosen in Recovery 2.0, that felt huge. And then my best friend recommended a retreat for me that I thought was a yoga retreat. And then I did a little bit of research, and it was a plant medicine retreat in Mexico. And I was like, whoa. I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm not ready for this. What are you talking about? I was like, I thought this was yoga. And he's like, no, it's not. He's like, I think you should don't judge it. I think you should consider it. And I was just like, okay. And for a variety of reasons and after a bunch of conversations with Facilitators, I was like, I'm going to do this. I think this feels like the next step. It feels a little crazy and a little scary. And it especially felt scary because even though they came recommended to me, like I didn't know them, and I wasn't going to know anybody else on the retreat. And at that point, I don't think I had traveled by myself yet ever in my life. But then my best friend called me, and he was like, hey, if you go on this retreat, I'm going to go with you. And I was like, oh, done. Let's go. That sealed the deal, and that started a big important part of my healing as well. With working with plant medicines and psychedelics.
Kelly: Was it ayahuasca?
Claudia: It was five meo DMT, San Pedro and Ayahuasca, which is incredibly intense to do all three, and not necessarily I mean, I don't not recommend it, but I also don't recommend it. It was wild. I felt like I got taken apart and put back together, and it was perfect. It was perfect for me in that time. It was really valuable, really insightful, and huge for my spirituality. That was like a rocket ship into my connection with Spirit and my connection with the Divine, and just kind of having a totally different understanding of what life is supposed to be about and what's important. And even though those are all huge, I still was carrying a lot of the guilt and the shame and just the inability to forgive myself really is what it boils down to. And I knew that I should. I was processing a lot, I was grieving a lot. I was understanding myself better than I ever had, but still just couldn't feel authentically that I couldn't say I forgive myself. I couldn't even say the words. It felt so blocked. And then it was when was that? I want to say that was like, in July or August. No, actually, the night the retreat ended was when Trump was elected. Oh, my gosh, that was, like, such a blow because we're like, oh, my God, we just became God, and the world is such a beautiful place. And then we turn on our Internet for the first time, and they're like, Wait, what? What's happening? This doesn't align with what we just went through as a group. The whole group was just a shock. Is this real? What's happening here? That was such a blow to finally get back online and to get that news. So what would that have been? Like, November
Kendle and Kelly: 2016
Claudia: So that was November. And then I found breathwork. That march, I believe. So three or four months later, and again, just saying yes to anything that came across my path. My teacher had done a Ted Talk on Breath, not even on breath work. That was beautiful. And I was like, who is this man? There's something about him. I want to connect with him more deeply. And then he was doing a friend of mine pointed out he was doing a breath work group here in Colorado. And I was like, oh, what are the chances of that? Like, signed up, thought it was going to be something a little bit more like meditation or Pranayama type thing, and blasted off my first session, like, incredible. It felt like five meo DMT. I couldn't believe how much it felt like a psychedelic experience, but just with my breath, and it gave me the first taste of, like, oh, this I might be able to forgive myself if I continue. I knew there was something there. I was like, wow, this is actually helping me get more into my heart and more into my body and less out of my head. And I also was like, this is amazing. I want to share this with everybody. And I inquired about an apprenticeship and then started bringing everybody I knew to Christians groups. I was like, my ex-husband had come, and, like, my best friends and my mother and my father, and I was like, Everybody's got to do this. And I'm like, and I want to be able to share it. So I started an apprenticeship pretty shortly after that and continued with my own breath work journey. And I remember the exact moment where forgiveness happened. I was in a breath work journey and from one breath to the next it just happened and it was so beautiful and so simple and so pure. And then in the next breath it was like, and there's nothing to forgive. I forgive myself and then there's nothing to forgive. And that was like, what I wasn't expecting that next part of the lesson. I just thought, oh, I can't wait to forgive myself. And then I was like, oh. And just then reaching a place of total acceptance and compassion. Oh, and not that I am not fully accountable for what happened, but more just like having the understanding that I was just in pain and making fucked up choices because I thought I was like piecing together some joy or happiness or satisfaction or pleasure. I was just like reaching for shitty tools, making, I hope it's okay if I cut decisions and living a very compartmentalized life and lacking total awareness of the damage I was causing and justifying a lot of what was happening, but anyways was able to just accept that version of myself that I no longer was, but still could embrace and realize it's just part of the evolution. How was that?
Kelly: You're talking about that and I have so many questions, but the one that calls me right now, you talk about forgiving yourself and you finally get to this point where you're like, oh, I did it, I can do it. Yeah. What was that experience after it? Were you just like, oh, I'm great now, I'm able to live this life? Or what struggles did you face from, okay, this is my old self, I forgive myself and now I'm moving forward.
Claudia: Yeah. I think at that point life definitely felt and looked different right away, but I still had to be very aware of like the old patterns and even though I had awareness around them now and was getting better or better at catching them before I would potentially reach for something that was harmful or just automatically responded in a certain way, it was still very much work. Like, I had to put into practice and I felt a lot of pressure because from myself but also from everybody who's watching me very carefully, especially I might be projecting this, but I felt like my ex husband and his side of the world were watching me very carefully to see like, is she going to fuck up again? I also feel like sometimes people thought that me identifying as a sex love addict might have been like a cop out or like an excuse, like a way to justify it because it's a weird one. It's not like one that people understand as well as alcoholism or drug addiction because that's much more prevalent. There's much more understanding through the science of it and the chemical component of what's happening in the body. And also, I feel now like I no longer identify as a sex and love addict. I do feel like I've healed that and that's controversial in the recovery world to not everybody. Tommy Rosen felt very strongly about no longer saying, like, I am such and such addict, because you continue to perpetuate that energy if you identify it.
Kelly: We talk about that a lot.
Claudia: So that started to resonate with me, and then I was like, also just like, how I couldn't say I forgive myself earlier. I can no longer say I'm a sex and love addict. It no longer feels authentic to me. And I know that if this is just cockiness and I end up slipping up, I'll be the first to admit and go back to those tools, go back to those programs that helped me, but I just no longer feel like that's in resonance with who I am anymore.
Kelly: Did you get a lot of resistance from people like, oh, is she who is this new person? I don't like this new version of her. How was that experience with your relationships with other people?
Claudia: I think there was a handful. I mean, I lost friends. Some friends just couldn't even get past the fact that I guess I didn't send this, but I was unfaithful at the end of my marriage, and people were very upset with me about that. I think people not a lot of people said things to me, but my intuition is relatively strong, and I'm probably being a bit paranoid, if I'm being honest. But I got the sense that people didn't trust how much I was diving into this work and how much I was healing and whether or not did I deserve forgiveness or did I deserve less judgment, perhaps. I think that took a while, and I don't even know if necessarily people have stopped judging me, but it's just like, so much time has passed that it's just kind of like we've moved beyond it. And I've had relatively recently, I think before pandemic, but a few years into this whole journey, I had one friendship in particular finally come back together, and we had to have a conversation about it. And she was like, I was really mad at you. And I was like, yeah, I get it. It's making me feel emotional. I was like, I was really mad at me, too. She actually came to a Breathwork session and heard about my journey and what Breathwork did for me and how dedicated I am to healing myself and repairing things. She's like, I'm sorry I was mad at you. And I was like, don't be. So I'm glad that we got past it. But some people didn't come back.
Kelly: I can see your emotion. Your friends now, though, after
Claudia: yeah, she and I, that was beautiful repair to our friendship and other friendships didn't survive that or didn't get to have that conversation or they didn't get to see the actual work that I was doing and the journey that I've been on. And that's okay. It's been a really beautiful experience to see who stuck by me and who didn't. And that's okay. And also me quitting drinking changes friendships, especially because I surrounded myself with people who love to drink so that it could help me not have to face the fact of how unhealthy my drinking was. But I will say I'm very excited that a lot of those friends actually now have also quit drinking. So it's like, that's beautiful. They were all like, maybe we were all not doing so great and now we can not drink together or drink less. And that's been awesome too. And then the other friendships have faded away. It's beautiful. It's interesting to see how friendships kind of come in and out and some grow and evolve and adapt together, and other ones are like, they just have their time and it's time to not stress about it and then let that one go. And talking about my best friend who recommended that first plant medicine retreat for me, even though there was no current giant trauma that he was working through, but he also chose to just start diving into the work. And I'm so grateful that we used to party hard together and now he always listens to say, like, we used to do a lot of drugs, we still do, but now we do it in a more intentional way. Totally. We went from our crazy party days, which I think we were, like, exploring altering your state of consciousness, but just in a way that wasn't very conscious. And now it's like we're mostly not consuming anything, but when we do, it's usually in a ceremonial context and with the goal of trying to heal and understand ourselves better and connect more with the divine. And I'm so grateful for him. He's like I think we've traveled many lives together and we're like spirit brother and sister. So, yeah, I'm very grateful for that friendship. I have a couple of friendships right now that are just like soul, deep soul family that got me through the darkest times of that whole experience.
Kendle: So Beautiful.
Claudia: It is very grateful. Having that support system is just so important. Even my mom, I'll say, like, my parents are immigrants, so they don't always understand what's happening and what I'm going through. But I was very candid with my mom. I just decided, like, part of this whole journey is like, learning to be radically honest. Which, as much as I can, I never lie. He's not even a white lie. Sometimes, I'll admit. Like with my father, we don't talk about everything because he's just not ready. But with my mother, I was like, I'm going to tell her everything. Especially with plant medicines. Like, I want her to know, even if she can't necessarily comprehend. But she's Peruvian, and so she's familiar with ayahuasca so that was an easier thing to broach. And I'm like, okay, these are other things that are like ayahuasca but this one comes from a toad, and this one comes from she's like she was a little scared and a little worried, but it was really beautiful that I could talk to her about that openly. And before she died, she commented on how she saw my growth and my progression with all of these stranger, potentially scary tools and things that I was working with, and that meant so much to me. I was like, I've seen what this has done for you, and it's done good. Like, you're doing amazing. And she didn't want anybody to judge me for that.
Kendle: You've talked about so many points with Metamorphosis being on the Sun Valley Wildness Festival and right now with your mom reflecting upon what she witnessed, and that your friend and how he's witnessed your journey and has gone through that together. And just like, all these moments of evolution and how you've allowed yourself to move beyond the label of a sex and love addict, I think that's so beautiful because that is what we're doing in life, is constantly evolving. And I can see why people in life would have resistance to the modalities because they're not the traditional. Right?
Claudia: Right.
Kendle: It's like, you dabbled in therapy. You did these things, there was something missing. And that's how I felt about therapy. And then I found breathwork. It's such a powerful integration tool, as we've talked about.
Claudia, yes and it doesn't have to be either or.
Kendle: Yes.
Claudia: Therapy was amazing for me, especially that therapist in particular taught me more about myself and then any other person has, really. And then toasted was valuable for the period of time that I was committed to it. And then plant medicines have been such a huge tool for me. And Breath work, obviously, is, like, the one that's resonated with me the most, and I've now dedicated my life to. And then I've left my corporate career behind and had to make some or chose to make some very significant lifestyle changes. But now life is amazing and fun, and I'm excited every day for the work I get to do. And the Crystals is a part of that, too. And it just feels, like, awesome and interesting to live this life now that's so different from my life before. And of course, there are aspects that are still not where I want it to be or where I feel lack or where I feel scarcity or where I feel, like, judgment. And that's okay. It's just all a balance and really leaning into trust.
Kendle: You're still in the cycles of it. And I know you mentioned this earlier, it's like, I've done this work. However, these habits are still here, and I have to continue to create space with them.
Claudia: And they still pop up forever. What I just reached for that's so wild.
Kelly: And, like, your journey didn't start not that long ago.
Claudia: Yeah.
Kelly: So much of your life were in these old habits and
Claudia: totally. Such a small amount of time, but in that small amount of time had so much change, so much drastic radical. I used to work at the Wall Street Journal. I used to wear, like, super hot power suits, like, sometimes seven inch stilettos, torque, like Eve Saint Laurent. I had my Gucci bags, my Balenciaga. I was the biggest label whore. And that was, like, the vibe at work. Like, everybody dressed to the nines, and it was all designer clothes, and it was fancy dinners and this, and that was really fun. But also it was, like, not really fulfilling me, but at the time I was like, this is so fun. Look at this life that I live. And now I wear, like, yoga pants and
Kendle: yoga pants and flip flops.
Claudia: Well, yeah, I love my shoes from Target.
Kendle: Target is so rad. Target. If we're feeling rad target.
Claudia: Exactly. I still have my Balencia purse upstairs, and I fussed out for special occasions, but most of that stuff is gone now, is donated or sold or whatever.
Kendle: It is so beautiful. Stark contrast. Right. I feel like, if I may, the very material world and how the incredible, deep, spiritual world and how you have lived that timeline.
Claudia: Yes. I feel like it's so profound, and the universe continues to bless me in nontraditional ways. Yeah. I'm not shopping and spending a stupid amount of money on clothes anymore, but I get to see a lot of the world through my work or as a result of my work or as a result of my business. And that, to me, has always been more important than material things. I've always had a love of travel, and now I'm getting to share that with my children. We travel a lot, and I feel so grateful. And we just booked a trip to Peru on miles. How do you afford all this stuff? I'm like, I got mileage. I'm really smart with my credit cards, and I only fly one airline, and I'm strategic with how I travel and how I spend on a budget.
Kendle: Exactly, because that's still you. There was a reason that Wall Street called to you. There's a reason that all these things called to you. And it's that philosophical question, are we the same ship? Are we the new ship? Once we've dismembered ourselves, then it's like, I think we're all of it.
Claudia: Yeah, exactly.
Kendle: And the universe is continuing to bless you. Just how serendipitous the series of events all right. Went, and you're finding Christian and breath work.
Kelly: I'm wondering. So I know you talked about a lot of your time with addiction and how that filled all of that dopamine. What do you think is the biggest tool that you use now to kind of like fill that or get that piece or is it even something that you still reach for? Do I need this domain hit all the time?
Claudia: Well, back then I felt my life was very like, maybe manic is the right term, I don't know. I feel really low. So then I'd have to get really high and then I feel really low and I have to get really high. There was not a lot of like in the middle. It was like one or the other. And so now I definitely feel like my life is much more in the middle most of the time. And of course there's lows and of course there's highs. But it's not like this massive swing where I'm having to reach for something because I feel so low. And I found other ways to improve my mood and improve how I'm feeling that are just a more regular part of my life. And I think probably the biggest lesson is that I'm just much more comfortable with being in the lows. Like sitting in the discomfort. I hated to be uncomfortable before. I hated to be in those lows. I hated to be vulnerable. All those things were things that seemed so negative for me before and I would just be reaching to pull myself out of it. And now it's like okay. It's okay that I'm sad today. It's okay that I just feel like laying on the couch and crying. Or it's okay that I'm feeling really low on my self esteem. Like it's going to pass or what can I do to kind of help shift it or make a different choice. And so it's just having that awareness, being comfortable in the discomfort, being aware of when I just need to be in it, or what's a healthier way for me to shift the energy or shift the mood. Breath work is huge for me. I probably averaged once or twice a month with it. But that's kind of like my maintenance thing. I let out a lot of energy and emotion when I have my breath work experiences. And then that keeps me feeling good and pretty balanced and pretty high until the next time or other different peak experiences as well. Like I go on retreats a few times a year. I'm really committed to self care and different self love practices. Those are things that I know that I can reach for that will actually suit me in a way that's healthy and in productive. And I can't even be little things like my Brad Pitt candle I have upstairs. It makes me laugh and I get all excited when I light it. I'm like even just little things like that. Just going to light my Brad Pitt candle. Correct. One of those saint candles. Like a Sacred Heart, but it's Brad Pitt instead of Jesus. Or a saint.
Kelly: Like a Beyonce one.
Claudia: Yeah, exactly. So things like that. I love that so much.
Kendle: Yeah, I remember when you got that candle. I think this is my new boyfriend. I'm committed to the dividend.
Claudia: Exactly. Or I work with different healers or teachers. I know when I could benefit from somebody else's wisdom or guidance or talents or something I can reach for with it myself. Kelly: What was the biggest message you got from plant medicine? Like, that first time?
Claudia: I mean, I think it was just the experience of nonduality and understanding that there's no separation between anything and what this human experience feels like in terms of total separation and just eliminating that idea, that conception completely, which was kind of scary in the moment. Like, ego death is no joke and mind blowing. Like, completely life changing. That was the biggest thing. And then finding ways to connect with that connected source that don't have to involve plant medicines. Even though I still do work with plant medicines, I get a lot of value from it. But that's one of the reasons I love breath work. Or it's one of the reasons I love a estatic dance. Sometimes can get me there, or some meditation can get me there. Sometimes yoga can get me there. Maybe not as intensely, but still finding different ways to just remember that there's no actual separation.
Kelly: I want to dabble in plant medicine. It's so funny. I've never done, like, mushrooms. I've never really experimented with anything like that. But I'm like, I want to try plant medicine. I'm so called to do it. You say that. I'm like, oh, I just want to experience it. I have to experience it. Claudia: Hopefully you have breath work. Breath work can get you there. Breath work, they're discovering, is a way we can endogenously, activate, EMT in the body. And I've experienced it. That's what I get from it. It'll be familiar. It's not going to be this total foreign thing for you. Kelly: Yeah. I feel like Kendle and I have been doing breath work. I mean, obviously I had the session with you, but I feel like I'm so in my head. I just want something to really kick me and be like, no, get out of your head. You're forced to do this right now. And then I think all of those other practices will really help me tap into that. But I just feel this calling of, like, I need something to slap me in the face and tell me to stop.
Kendle: I feel like it'll come when it's meant to you. Like the right opportunity will cross your path.
Claudia: Exactly.
Kendle: Because it has to be something that we're ready for.
Claudia: Exactly.
Kendle: I know we've talked a lot about this, like the afterwards, the maintenance, the integration. It's huge because as you've shared with me, people sometimes go to it expecting, oh, my life is just
Claudia: getting magic pills.
Kendle: going to shift
Claudia: Yeah, exactly. This is it. This is the one thing I have to do. And the life is going to be different. At the start of it. Yeah, exactly. It'll show you some things and teach you some things, but then it's like, how are you then going to bring that into your life and incorporate all those lessons? And there's still a lot of responsibility afterwards that people are now starting to pay more attention to. But unless you're willing to commit to the work and responsibility afterwards and it's almost like you waste the experience. Yeah, I could see that. Right? Yeah. Some people the ego is strong and you need to take something and then have the ego dissolution happen. And for others, not so much, but yeah.
Kelly: How many times do you think you've had an ego death?
Claudia: True ego death would be every time I did five meo DMT, which is four times. Its similar or gotten close with Ayahuasca, but not like with five meo and for me it's interesting. With 5 meo, I from my understanding, typically when you do it, it's different each time, more often than not. But for me it was almost identical every time. That's why I haven't got called to go back yet, because I'm like, it's so fucking hard and I know exactly what to expect now. And I'm not sure that I want to go there again. But without being too long winded, in the beginning of the experience, I'm in a total panic. And in total, it's honestly, each time it's in the most terrifying moment of my life where I feel like I've made a mistake, I'm doing something dangerous, I'm about to go offline permanently. Everybody's going to judge me. How could I do something so stupid to ingest something that's going to turn me into a vegetable? And that's the thing. It's not even a fear of death. It's a fear of like, going into a vegetative state and destroying everything in my life. I'm spiraling in that fear and that despair and that panic and trying to hold on to reality while I'm getting deeper and deeper and all these different stories and lessons are going through and a lot of it's like, judgment of like, how could you be so stupid? This is so reckless. Like, what are you doing? There's a reason why people don't do these things. And everybody's going to hate you for this. Like, so many stories and so much fear and not being able to communicate and ask for help. It's funny. Well, then I get to this point where there's nothing I can do anymore. Like, it's just happening. And each time I get to a point where it's just like, oh, wow, I can't resist anymore. And so I'm becoming a vegetable or something. Whatever the thought is, I just have to let go. And then when I do, the death happens. And then it's just like it's so hard to put into words. But that's the nonduality. The first time I experienced it, it was still duality. It was still like. Me experiencing pure love and seeing it and feeling it and hearing it, but it was still me and the love. And then I think it was the second or the third time that it was no longer me. It was just love, and I wasn't witnessing it or feeling it. It was just that's all that was. One of my mentors described it as, like, the volume is turned up on everything, on color, on sound, on feeling. It's like everything's to the max, but in a way that feels stunning. And so, yeah, that's the ego death. It's scary and terrifying and horrible until you finally let go. And then it's like, the most beautiful thing you could ever possibly imagine
Kendle: because the ego doesn't want to die. Every word you were saying and that's egos yelling at you.
Claudia: Yeah.
Kendle: I know you all don't, like, love Harry Potter. Like, I love Harry Potter, but I just had this vision of the movie where they're killing the Horcruxes, and the Horcrux is, like, literally fighting for its life and throwing all this terrible stuff at the person trying to kill it. And that is what happened.
Claudia: Yeah. Your ego is desperately trying to cling to normalcy.
Kendle: Wow.
Claudia: And that's not by the way, everybody's experience is very different. It just so happens that this is my experience, and it's been the same every time. And the only thing that's different is that the ego death gets harder and it gets deeper, and I get more messages and more of, like, these stories and this doubt and these control issues come to the surface. So there's value in that, but it's fucking hard and scary, and I don't remember that, like, oh, I've already been here every time. It's like, I am turning off my I don't feel like I'm dying physically, but I'm like, I am destroying my brain in this moment, and this is the scariest thing that's ever happened to me.
Kelly: The ego, right, is what you've developed to protect yourself, right?
Claudia: Yes.
Kelly: So that's why it's challenging, because the ego, even though it's something you want to push away and leave and lose, because those are old ways of protecting yourself. I don't know why you're serving you, but you created this strong thing to push me through these challenges, these experiences,
Claudia: 100%.
Kelly: When you're killing it and it's dying, of course, I'm thinking about it trying to keep us alive. I need to be in control in order for us to stay alive and safe. And I'm losing control on this experience and saying, no more. Go away.
Kendle: This is, I don't know, an assumption, maybe. Hearing this, I'm like, do you think that the point of life is to come and have our egos die? Are we all meant to go through ego death?
Claudia: yeah. I don't know if it has to be ego death, but I think it is. The point is to understand that nonduality and that connection and that we are God. That's what it is in those moments. That's what the easiest way I can describe it is that I don't even say I am God or I am love, because it's still I. It's more just like you just become love or you become God, which to me is synonymous. So I think that's the point. If you need to have an ego death in order to get there, then so be it. But not everybody does.
Kendle: Most people do.
Claudia: Yeah. But I will say, like, when I said that, my first breathwork experience felt like five meo DMT. It felt like the nonduality part. I got to skip all the ecodes and just go right back to that. Wow. Love. Peace. And that's why I was, like, hooked on breathword for the first time. I was like, yes, more of it, please. I can get there without having to die.
Kendle: Yeah. That love. And that just makes me think of the sex and love addiction. That was emotional. Right?
Claudia: Yeah.
Kendle: Validation. And that's what we are all craving so much of and just wanted to be seen and held and appreciated and loved and desired and all that stuff. And not finding that externally. Right. Like having that.
Claudia: Exactly. I was looking everywhere for it out here, not realizing that I needed it here. Kendle: Yeah. I mean, I don't think any we're not taught that that's the truth. Right. We're conditioned to seek our happiness, our joy, our love, everything outside of us.
Claudia: Yeah. And I think that was an interesting part of my journey, too, because I have immigrant parents who came from essentially nothing or not much. And so part of my life, I've made it. I'm successful, I've achieved that. I can afford these things. And then it gets me so excited and high to be able to buy myself a new purse and dress a certain way and spend a certain amount on something. And so that was a lot of the validation I was getting because I thought this meant something. And it did in a certain way. I studied hard and I worked hard, and I was great at my job, but it was an empty kind of validation.
Kelly: I'm a material girl, too. I love a little gucci, but breaking away from, like, this is giving me validation. This is giving me worth in separating those two pieces and just enjoying it because I like it instead of it. It's making me feel worthy,
Kendle: as you said. It's the emptiness versus the fulfillment and seeking finding them, that fulfillment and still knowing I still love my Valencia bag. Because, again, you are still that person. You're just an evolved version of you, and what an honor it is to know you.
Kelly: You also talked about a big part of your journey is like saying yes. Do you think before you kind of started that was it something that you were not doing because you were afraid? Or what was that big thing of that transition of I'm saying yes to everything that I'm trusting? Claudia: Exactly. I think trust is the key piece in it. I started to trust that there was a lot I didn't know, there was a lot available to me that could potentially be beneficial, that I needed to not be scared of or judge. Like, this best friend that I'm referring to, Jeremiah, he laughed at me, and he's like, God, the Claudia from seven years ago would judge the Claudia today so hard. And I was like, you're right. You're right. She totally would have because she didn't understand and thought this just didn't understand in any way, I think. Yeah, trusting. And also, I would say yes to something, and I'd be like, oh, wow, I really liked that. Or, I really got something out of it. And then I had to learn to be discerning. I did get to a place in my life where I'm saying yes, everything wasn't serving me. I would sign up for something and be like, wow, that was actually not a good use of my time. Or I should have been more selective with that investment, because I do believe very much in investing in myself. I think not that all self work has to cost money, but I also think it's valuable to invest in somebody who knows more than you do so that they've leveled up, and then they can help to level you up. It takes study and investment and work to continue to grow. And so there are times where I would sign up for something, a class or a workshop or a mentorship and be like, it's no longer time to say yes to everything. Now I'm at a place in my life where I should be discerning and lean into the trust that tells me whether or not this is actually something I should say yes to. And less and less that's happening, but sometimes it still does. And I'm like, I should have really paused and made a more thoughtful choice with that. But thankfully it's happening less and less.
Kendle: Yeah. I mean, you earlier mentioned that you've had a strong intuition. Do you feel like I know that that has only grown with the work you're doing? Yeah. Do you feel like you've always had that strong intuition and maybe you kind of put her to bed for a while?
Claudia: I think I've always had it, but I was not using it in good ways, especially, like, when things were just bad and I was kind of leading multiple lives, and I was, like, having to stay a few steps ahead in all these different ways. My intuition was probably serving, but just not in a way in a way that allowed me to continue to use harmful choices and paths. But certainly it's gotten much stronger, and certainly I trust it more and listen to it more.
Kendle: The trust is huge. I feel like I always test mine. I don't want to trust it. And maybe it's my ego. You're wrong.
Claudia: I don't know what it is that is like yeah, just recently there was a retreat that happened, a plant medicine retreat, and had a lot of friends going, and it was a no. Like, immediately it was a no. And then I was like, well, that's weird. I love these people. I'm free that weekend. That never happens. It would actually align pretty well. And then I was just like, I was like, well, maybe I'm not a hard now. I'm going to continue to sit with it, and I'm going to continue to sit with it. And eventually I was just like, yeah, I'm just not feeling cold. And I'm not really I kind of know why. But I don't have to know why. I just know that it's not a fuck yes that's so big for me right now. Everything has to be a fuck yes instead of just saying yes to everything, I have to say fuck yes to everything before I will do it. Because if it's not, then it's a no. Yeah, exactly. And so then those friends came back from that retreat and long story short, I'm so glad I didn't go. I'm so glad I didn't go. Thank you. Intuition like that, but it just would have not been my jam, and I would have been regretting it the whole time. And like, why didn't I listen to myself? I knew. So now I was like, that was really validating. I was like, okay, I listened to my intuition and it was spot on.
Kelly: Especially going into something like plant medicine. Right. That's probably I've never done it, but it heightens those already emotions. Like, if you're there and you're like, this isn't serving me and I don't like this, and then you go into plant list and that's only, I would imagine, kind of festering more of those kind of thoughts instead of being in that space of like, I can't wait to do this. I'm excited for this. That mentality going into it.
Claudia: Yeah, exactly.
Kendle: The universe just tested you. Right. It's always testing us. It's like the ego. It's slippery. Everything's all slippery. It's like, okay, you learned your lesson, but did you? Right. And I'm going to fall and they're not going to. But it's like they just keeps things. Makes me think of the forgiveness. Right. It's like there's actually nothing to forgive. We are all simply just trying to live and live in the school of life and evolution.
Kelly: So we're sitting in this beautiful space yeah. Full of crystals. Back when I walked in, I was like, oh, I feel everything. What is your favorite crystal? If you had to only pick one, you can only pick one.
Claudia: There's a tie. But if I had to pick one,
Kelly: you can give the tie.
Claudia: Sugalite is my favorite. And Euphoralite, those two have had just the most, I guess, impact, I would say, or I'm just most drawn to, or I just resonate the most with. And it would be really hard for me to choose between the two.
Kelly: What are those two things really do?
Claudia: Sugalite is a vibrant purple stone. It's very rare to find these days. From my understanding, it's mostly mind out or difficult to find. Maybe not mostly mind out, but difficult to find. High quality, and it's becoming very expensive, but it's very much heart and third eye. It's like love, healing, heart, and also enlightenment and also good for dealing with pain and trauma. And then Euphoralite is a crystal that's literally changed my life, and I've become good friends with the man who discovered it and who prospects for it and cuts it and polishes it and sells it. And he's been almost like a crystal guardian angel for me. And besides that, I just really resonate with the stone, but also it's just been a really big part of my crystal business and my crystal journey. And I use it all over my breath room. I have like 20 pieces up there. I just feel like it's a really important healing stone.
Kendle: Yeah, it's all about that oneness too.
Claudia: Yes, it is. Yeah. And it's like, that's all Euphoria right there. It's not like your typical pretty sparkly crystal, but it's incredible in terms of composition and, like, what it does for the body. And it has really high negative ion counts, which, if you have a Himalayan salt lamp, it's like 30 times what that would be. And my favorite thing about it is that it has unidentified materials in it, so believed to be extraterrestrial origin.
Kelly: Yeah, that's what Kendle said, so cool.
Claudia: Yeah. So that's another reason why it's one of my favorites and I watch people interact with it and they're like, they pick it up and they're like, not everybody, because not everybody is sensitive. And different stones resonate with different people, but more often than not, people are like, whoa. And people who are really sensitive sometimes don't love it because it's so powerful. That was too much for me.
Kelly: We always like to ask, if you could tell your younger self something, what would that be?
I love the deep breath that always comes loaded.
Claudia: I know, yes. There's so many things. And I'm trying to think of like I mean. I think it's important that I learned the lessons that I did and I went through all the experiences that I did. But just I honestly think it would be I would try to offer her some guidance or some wisdom into just listening to myself more and honoring myself more and being less concerned with what other people were thinking or judging or whatever and just making more decisions and choices based on what was actually going to be good for me rather than. Like. What I thought it needed to be or thought how life had to look like or yeah. Just listening to myself more. Honoring myself more. And like. Really understanding what made me happy and then what was harmful for me.
Kendle: That's beautiful.
Kelly: I think that's a message we can tell all of our younger selves, right? If we could go back. Kendle: Yeah, absolutely. I'm sitting in that.
Claudia: Yeah, I know. I needed to write that down and tell that to my kids
Kendle: we’ll give them the recording! how amazing. It's like, we can't go back in time and tell our younger self that we all have people in our lives that are younger than us. Our kids, nieces, nephews, potentially young kids one day. And that's the point. I can't change it. And you need to learn your own lesson. But just instilling like, that sense of self love and self worth and comfort within oneself, do you find that your kids I mean, I know we're in a different age, right? Do your kids still really struggle with the fear of what other people are thinking?
Claudia: Yeah, especially my daughter is now in middle school. It's a really huge thing. Right now.
Kendle: She's on social media.
Claudia: Yeah. And it's like, this is a silly example, but I'm always complimenting her on her legs. She's got these beautiful, long legs. She's going to be so tall. She's got gorgeous legs. And the other day she's like, my legs are too long, I don't like them. And I was like, that's not a thing. I was like, nobody in the history of the world has complained about having legs that are too long. And maybe that's not true, but I was like, Lima, this is going to be one of your best features. It's so sad that you think it's a flaw.
Kendle: I think that's so natural, though, right? It's like, we always are going to pick ourselves apart, especially living in this world that teaches us to pick ourselves apart. So the things that maybe draw the most attention are going to be the things that are like, why do I have this? Why is my body like this? And so much like, body hatred so hard.
Claudia: Yeah. And comparison, popularity, that's such a big thing. Like, well, the popular girls think this, or told me this, or like, here's one thing that I am so happy for my children, that they're, like, in tune with their emotions and we talk about it and we identify it, and I think that they're ahead of their peers in terms of being in touch with that. My son already is like, oh, it's so embarrassing to cry. And I'm like, it's not like crying is a human emotion, but no, at school it's very embarrassing. You never cry. I'm trying to get him to understand that he shouldn't be afraid of crying or that it's not a weakness. But then my daughter the other day with middle school politics, they kicked her out of the group, and I was like, you should tell them that.
Kelly: That's like, so mean.
Claudia: that hurts your feelings. And she's like, mom, they kick me out of the group because they say I'm too emotional. And if I say something like that, that just proves their point. And I was just like, that's terrible. That's terrible that you're comfortable expressing your feelings and how the way other people treat you affects you, and then that's the reason why they don't want to be friends with you.
Kelly: I'm like that's terrible. I feel like you can go up with them and say, I'm sorry that you're projecting, unable to be in your emotions. But I am, and if that's something you want to talk about, let me know. But I don't want to be in your group because I don't want to be in a group that can reject how I'm feeling. It's so hard. That's totally what's happening. As an adult, you see those things. I can put myself in this middle school, like, childhood, and I can totally resonate with your daughter right now. And I'm like one of the things I would tell my younger self is, like, they're projecting on you.
Kendle: Exactly. It’s Not you. There's something that they're seeing in you that's triggering them negatively. And the fact that they even say you're too emotional, that's something they can feel, that they're blocked in. They don't feel comfortable communicating, like, expressing what their experiences or they've been told, don't cry. Put your emotions away. Like, you're too emotional in instances. Yeah, because it is. That's, like, what life is. Right? It's like, we're all living the simulation, and everyone's projecting onto everyone. It's a mess. What do you think needs to change in middle school? I mean it needs an overall, right?
Claudia: Yeah, but it's like if there was two or three core things, I would love for them to teach more about either mindfulness or things around your emotions, especially because emotions are running wild in middle school.
Kendle: Hormones.
Claudia: Hormones. Yeah. Sex ed needs to be drastically overhauled. Yeah. I think those are, like, three key things that your middle school is missing.
Kendle: Absolutely.
Kelly: Your children are so fortunate to have someone that's now in this new space, you're able to help provide all of these tools with them. So your children are so lucky.
Claudia: Thank you. They're cool kids.
Kendle: I can attest.
Claudia: Yeah. And it's so funny. I'll just say this last thing about this. I've gotten so good at boundaries. Now, we talked earlier about how I was terrible at holding boundaries. I set them, but I wouldn't hold them. And now I'm, like, almost a little too good with boundaries. Like, it can be confronting to people, but I'm like, whatever, this is what I need. This is what I'm going to say. But I'm terrible at holding it with my children. It's so crazy how I can't do it. And sometimes I see it happening, and sometimes I don't until later. And I was just like, why is it that everywhere else in my life now, I've gotten really solid with boundaries? And it's like nonnegotiable. And then with my kids, I just let them walk all over me.
Kendle: Why do you think?
Claudia: I don't know.
Kendle: I mean, I know for my cousin who works a lot, she has a lot of mom guilt. And so then that's kind of where her part of her guilt.
Claudia: Thank you. Mom guilt, like divorce guilt, work guilt. I do feel guilty. I do feel like being a single mom is challenging because I'm like running a business and running a household and trying to feed them somewhat nutritious food and trying to not have them on screens too much. And so then when it's time to be firm, it's easier for me. I just want them to be happy. I just want them to be happy.
Kelly: they'll be happy with boundaries.
ClaudiaL They will be. in the moment, it feels hard. It's not like I'm making a choice of like, oh, I'm going to throw this boundary out the window. I just find myself really flexible sometimes.
Kendle: I think you have to choose your battles sometimes too, especially at this age that they're at. They're going to fight you on everything. Do I want to fight about this right now? Claudia: Totally.
Kendle: Which is hard. It's a negotiation now instead of like a parent child.
Claudia: They're amazing negotiators. People comment on it. They're like, wow, they're like, really good at negotiating our emotions.
Kendle: You said you became really strong with your boundaries. What are some practices that you would say helped with that? Has it just been an evolution over time?
Claudia: Part of it is just like that commitment to being radically honest. I felt like I had to be very clear on what was cool and what was not cool with me. Part of it is like, what we were talking about before. I'm being discerning about things. And that even comes to just like, when spending time with people and what works and what doesn't work for me. Part of that is dating. I've been divorced now for separated at least for five or six years now. That relationship ended, I should say, like, six and a half years ago. And I've only had one relationship since then. But even just like, with dating getting really clear and like, okay, this actually doesn't work for me, this person. It's not worth continuing this interaction or conversation because I can just already see that this is what I need and they're not going to be able to meet me there. I think just getting clear on what works for me and keeping myself more imbalanced and more happy and in check and having a lot more clarity on what I need. And also just like with all the work that I did in regards to my marriage and healing all that, it was very unclear on what my needs were and how to meet them in a healthy way and how to meet them for myself too, but also with who I choose to spend my time with and how I choose to spend my time. And so boundaries have just been become an important part of that.
Kendle: Yes, I've noticed that with myself, too. Once I made that decision to love myself, to go down that path, I had to stop living for other people, seeking that validation, doing the things that weren't necessarily serving me, but I was taught that to me or I learned served me in some way.
Claudia: I used to feel very uncomfortable, like, setting a boundary and holding it, and now it feels more and more comfortable, and sometimes it's a little edgy, but usually it's, like, eventually met with appreciation. Like, okay.
Kendle: yeah, I feel like I've learned how to communicate it better because I think in the beginning, I was like, no, don't touch me. And now it's like, I would really appreciate it if that shift in language, because it's exactly that. I'm now more comfortable. And now I know more now what I'm actually asking for versus just like this. Oh, I feel really jarred and activated, and I want to best type of energy, and I think it's inspiring for people to witness, too, because I think sometimes they're like, oh, okay, this is healthy.
Claudia: Yeah, I can ask for this too. Someone made a joke about it the other day. We were, like, leaving a retreat that I was hosting, and I was like, okay. And my friend is not so great. He's like, Claudia, it's time to get everybody to go. And I'm like, okay, everybody can continue these conversations, but they have to happen outside. And someone's like, Claudia, you're always so good at running like a tight ship. But I'm like, hey, whatever you need to do. I need to lock the door
Kelly and Claudia: You don’t have to go home but you can’t stay here.
Even though I was, like, breaking all the rules before, I still am a stickler for rules in order, and, like, things have to go a certain way.
Kendle: You had your own rules that you were following.
Claudia: Yeah, exactly.
Kelly: Are there any other last things that you kind of want to end with? Anything you missed? Claudia: No. I don't know.
Kendle: You covered a lot. We appreciate that.
Claudia: And I think I was very forthcoming on a lot of topics that I'm not always as forthcoming on. That felt good to be in that kind of empowered vulnerability and maybe just ending with that. I think we touched on earlier that I used to feel invulnerability was a weakness, and now I very much feel like it's a superpower and something that I look for in friendships and relationships in all aspects. And even thinking about the breathwork apprenticeship, and Kendle is one of my breath work apprentices. When I first created the program, I didn't think about the fact that they would be holding space for me in a private one on one session, and that would require me to be completely vulnerable and going through my own work in front of people that I was mentoring and teaching and that once I realized that was going to happen, I was like, whoa, that's really itchy. But you know what? This feels right and feels like the best learning opportunity and is going to force me to maybe be a little bit uncomfortable, but also trust that it's for the best and it's going to work out.
Kendle: You definitely model that.
Claudia: Thank you. I want to thank you so much.
Kelly: I feel so honored just to be able to be here and hear your story and have you shared that with us and being able to record that and let us share it with so many other people that I know this message is just going to be so impactful for others because I know. I'm sure people have similar stories and to hear that and hear some of these tools and your self love journey is going to be so beautiful to share.
Kendle: For sure. And we will link all of everything in the show notes. The Claudia has a crystal business. She's a breathwork facilitator and got retreats. She's got all the things she gave me virtual work I do. She ships everywhere. Exactly. And she holds beautiful space. So thank you for allowing us to hold space for you today.
Claudia: And also, I'll just say that I have a free library of Breathwood practices on my website. So it's just a wonderful resource for people who are just looking to incorporate something more regularly or experiment with different styles so that's available as well.
Kelly: We love that accessible, accessible things.
Kendle: Yeah. And she has a retreat.
Claudia: Yes. In September. Well, this will go live, but September 28th, all the details can be found on my website. It'll Be breathwork Yoga ice Bath cacao Aesthetic Dance Hot Springs Sound Healing partnering with my best friend here for two times now and yeah, it'll be awesome. Magic. And there are scholarship opportunities available, so that's something that we didn't really touch on, but I think this year it's one of my goals to try to make breath work and this type of healing more accessible and into communities where there's maybe not even an awareness of these types of tools and modalities. And so it's a work in progress. But one of the first steps is I'm trying to now offer sliding scale and our scholarship to everything that I'm doing. So I'd love to get that message out there too. For anybody who feels like this is out of their reach, it's not just connect with me and we'll find a way.
Kendle: I love that. Just you being amazing. This is a gift. You are a gift, you are all a gift. Thank you all so much for listening. Much love you.
Claudia: Thank you.
Kendle: Thank you for holding space for this conversation. We hope it was expansive. As a new podcast, it would mean the world if you could please help us grow our community. By leaving a review and sharing this episode.
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